11.04.2010 - 'Alice in Wonderland' by Tim Burton

Trailer
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Meeting Log
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tim :)

Timbo Quan: Hello

Timbo Quan: Just us?

Gaya Ethaniel: I guess we have a small group today.

Gaya Ethaniel: Let's give a couple more minutes and we can start.

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Alfred :)

Alfred Kelberry: i haven't even logged in yet and got a greeting! :)

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Timbo Quan: Hello Alfred

Alfred Kelberry: oi, cute bunny :)

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Alfred Kelberry: i see 2 of you so far

Gaya Ethaniel: Let's start.

Alfred Kelberry: timbo the jellyfish :)

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Timbo Quan: yup

Alfred Kelberry: i confess, i haven't seen it. and probably won't :)

Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok np

Alfred Kelberry: it's too... well, too theatrical

Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...

Gaya Ethaniel: Do you like his other works?

Alfred Kelberry: i prefer sci-fi or thrillers :)

Timbo Quan: I'll go with the sci-fi

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Subaru :)

Alfred Kelberry: his? i forgot the name

Subaru Arun: Hi :)

Alfred Kelberry: oi, subaru

Alfred Kelberry: wroom wroom

Gaya Ethaniel: Please feel free to join us. For more information on our group, please see, http://mise-en-scene.wikia.com/

Subaru Arun: Thank you :)

Gaya Ethaniel: I like Tim Burton quite a lot actually.

Timbo Quan: hello Subaru

Subaru Arun: Hello Timbo :)

Alfred Kelberry: (subaru, what's your title say?)

Subaru Arun: Yi Jing

Alfred Kelberry: ah, tim burton. that's the guy.

Gaya Ethaniel: I was introduced to him via 'Beetlejuice', a classmate lent me a VHS tape and asked me to watch it after an enthusiastic chat on music & film.

Subaru Arun: Forgot I had it on

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dao :)

Dao Yheng: Hi all!

Subaru Arun: Thx Gaya :)

Gaya Ethaniel: In my opinion, looking back over his works, one doesn't know exactly what to expect.

Alfred Kelberry: i'll have to imdb him. don't remember what he's done.

Timbo Quan: Hello Dao

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: His films are unique, beautiful, moving, funny, philosophical, sensitive ...

Gaya Ethaniel: Depth and breadth would be an apt phrase to describe his works. My [current] favourite is Edward Scissorhands.

Dao Yheng: (just stopping in for a bit) Mine too!

Gaya Ethaniel: :D

Gaya Ethaniel: Jonny Depp said I believe Edward represents Burton.

Alfred Kelberry: depp is cool

Gaya Ethaniel: Burton began working as a concept artist at Disney [he was active during the revitalisation of the company].

Gaya Ethaniel: Depp and Burton are very close friends.

Dao Yheng: I thought he was really wonderful as the Mad Hatter

Gaya Ethaniel: They work frequently together.

Alfred Kelberry: he's kind of a burton's type, but inside

Gaya Ethaniel: He was :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Some people got annoyed at his accents but I didn't notice.

Alfred Kelberry: what accent? depp's?

Gaya Ethaniel: Looking at his works, one can easily imagine how he must have longed to work on his own projects while at Disney.

Gaya Ethaniel: Well apparently he was mixing up two different regional accents as Mad Hatter. It didn't bother me ... :)

Alfred Kelberry: oh, sure thing, gaya :) didn't he was at disney

Gaya Ethaniel: Currently there is an exhibition on his works in NY, a wonderful interview here on http://www.moma.org/interactives/exhibitions/2009/timburton/index.php

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes he worked there for a while until spotted by a producer I believe after a making short film. More information about Burton can be found on this site.

Alfred Kelberry: are you all burton's fans here? :)

Dao Yheng: But have to admit, thought the changes to the story were lame

Gaya Ethaniel: Dao seems to be :)

Alfred Kelberry: except me and the jellyfish :P

Gaya Ethaniel: Overall idea was great though but yes something lacked for me.

Gaya Ethaniel: Alice as creator of own worlds ... Shiva :)

Dao Yheng: well, it's kind of ridiculous to turn the story into a battle plan

Alfred Kelberry: so, he changed the original script?

Timbo Quan: I don't mind Burton

Gaya Ethaniel: Battle scenes didn't look well in his 'style' ...

Dao Yheng: the script was very different from the book

Alfred Kelberry: silly question, though, of course he would...

Gaya Ethaniel: Well, similar criticisms were raised on his Batman films too ...

Alfred Kelberry: maybe the name is all what's left :)

Gaya Ethaniel: But I thoroughly enjoyed his Batman :)

Timbo Quan: I thought the card soldiers were well done

Gaya Ethaniel: I have to say I overheard someone complaining about the story change and her friend replying that she hadn't read the book so didn't bother her. It didn't bother me but the actual change itself wasn't convincing.

Dao Yheng: I thought the costumes and sets were incredible, but I do find the story sometimes lacking (except for Edward Scissorhands :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Yeah ... motions were very realistic Tim.

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: I loved the ending credit, like a picture book.

Timbo Quan: The ending was stolen!

Gaya Ethaniel: AND Stephen Fry being Cheshire Cat :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Tim?

Timbo Quan: The idea was copy off from a video card benchmark (3d Mark) - but was effective

Gaya Ethaniel: Could you say more Tim?

Dao Yheng: (Mits is about to log in -- he feels he must defend how bad the story changes were)

Gaya Ethaniel: oh ok :)

Timbo Quan: I thought it was just a typical case of weak plot with visuals & effects to cover it up

Timbo Quan: Normally his movies have better story line

Gaya Ethaniel: What is this benchmark 3D mark about though?

Gaya Ethaniel: Any weblink?

Gaya Ethaniel: Well Mars Attack wouldn’t be considered as having a strong story line either ... but it was hilarious.

Gaya Ethaniel: For me the casting of Alice wasn't strong enough ...

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mitsu :)

Mitsu Ishii: sorry I am on a slow computer

Gaya Ethaniel: np

Dao Yheng: (taking him a while -- his computer died so now he's using my old mac and a backup copy of his hard drive -- doppelganger computer)

Subaru Arun: Hello Mitsu :)

Timbo Quan: There is a 3d benchmarh that shows one's computer graphics card to effect. Google 3dmark for more. At the end of them they often had something very similar to the alice movie

Gaya Ethaniel: oh sorry to hear that, mine always died after WoK too >.<

Gaya Ethaniel: ahhhh I see Tim

Mitsu Ishii: Sue said I should explain my theory about why I disliked this movie :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Sure please :)

Timbo Quan: Hi Mitsu

Mitsu Ishii: The basic reason is that the original Alice in Wonderland was a story filled with all sorts of allegories, logic games, and other things that were meant to point to deeper issues with mind, language, and the relationship between reality and social norms and thinking and so on

Subaru Arun: /me nods

Gaya Ethaniel: Or he was on something ... heheheh

Dao Yheng: (both)

Subaru Arun: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: lol

Mitsu Ishii: but the screenwriters obviously didn't understand any of that, and seemed to treat the characters and stories as just elements they could randomly cut up and rearrange in more or less arbitrary ways which had little or no relation to the purpose of the characters and events

Mitsu Ishii: yeah, there were references to drug use too, I believe

Mitsu Ishii: in the original

Gaya Ethaniel: Very much Holmes ... ^^;;;

Timbo Quan: they probably though it was too complex

Mitsu Ishii: like jabberwocky --- it was supposed to be a clever play on language where you see that these nonsense words can evoke an intuitive picture even though they're not referring to anything we can recognize.

Gaya Ethaniel: Well, it seems that he had to cast a teenager to get the funding ... so had to rearrange the story to fit that.

Mitsu Ishii: but instead they make a literal jabberwock and so on ... totally lame! :)

Subaru Arun: Agree Mitsu

Mitsu Ishii: tweedledee and tweedledum were a fun play on logic in the original story, but now they're just these silly fat characters

Gaya Ethaniel: For me it was lame but ... I like his take on mind/time also mocking fairytales.

Mitsu Ishii: ret.c

Mitsu Ishii: okay that's my cynical take on it :)

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Dao Yheng: My least favorite part was her business plan re: China --

Timbo Quan: Well they made the movie to make money

Timbo Quan: (as always)

Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... yes

Gaya Ethaniel: Some markets I believe require such an ending ...

Gaya Ethaniel: Uplifting endings ... :)

Dao Yheng: :))

Dao Yheng: So, can you say a little more about where you saw the "mind/time" issues?

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I think Burton is getting a bit soft ... :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Well, he had to cast a teenager ... so she's going back, seeing things unfolding as in determined.

Gaya Ethaniel: And all these are creations of her own mind.

Gaya Ethaniel: Like a dream ...

Gaya Ethaniel: There were some layers between those tensions.

Gaya Ethaniel: But a bit too weak to notice really ...

Dao Yheng: Hmm, I'd be interested to see your movie on Alice -- more interesting probably :)

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Dao Yheng: OK, got to run -- late for an important date...

Dao Yheng: Nice seeing everyone!

Gaya Ethaniel: Have fun, thanks for dropping by.

Mitsu Ishii: okay we have a friend visiting so we have to go :)

Mitsu Ishii: bye all

Gaya Ethaniel: Bye :)

Dao Yheng: bye!

Subaru Arun: Bye :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Subaru, have you seen it yet?

Subaru Arun: Actually no, but I have read about it

Subaru Arun: The reviews seemed not good for the most part

Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...

Subaru Arun: But from what i understand it was a retelling, yes?

Timbo Quan: it was a disappointment

Gaya Ethaniel: I kind of saw the later part as mockery on typical fairytales.

Gaya Ethaniel: I left with wanting more yes ...

Subaru Arun: Not like the book as such

Gaya Ethaniel: But visuals were great though weren't they?

Gaya Ethaniel: Worth seeing on a big screen I thought.

Gaya Ethaniel: It seems Dao liked Mat Hatter a lot. For me the most curious character was the White Queen.

Gaya Ethaniel: While I was reading reviews, I found out that she's based on Nigella Lawson.

Gaya Ethaniel: It clicked then and I almost fell off my chair.

Gaya Ethaniel: laughing that is :)

Timbo Quan: The 3d was good

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Was it worth the money Tim?

Timbo Quan: yes I thought it was - even just for the visuals

Timbo Quan: But probably won't bother seeing it again on tv though

Gaya Ethaniel: Do let me know how you found it Alfred and Subaru, if you decide to see it.

Subaru Arun: I will :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I think it's almost time to wrap.

Gaya Ethaniel: Unless you have anything else to discuss about this film or the meetings.

Timbo Quan: what is next movie?

Gaya Ethaniel: Ghost Writer [correction: Shutter Island] unless we have a guest speaker - tbc

Gaya Ethaniel: Probably we will have people complaining a lot heheheh

Timbo Quan: we can discuss this I guess

Subaru Arun: Have you a sore bottom Alfred? :)

Gaya Ethaniel: What's 'this' Tim?

Timbo Quan: whether ghost writer is the next movie

Gaya Ethaniel: ah

Gaya Ethaniel: Do you have other suggestions?

Subaru Arun: I wonder why you do not sit down

Timbo Quan: not sure whats on

Gaya Ethaniel: Alfred often stands :)

Subaru Arun: For any reason?

Gaya Ethaniel: Well, why don't you let me know once you look around Tim?

Subaru Arun: His legs must get tired ;-)

Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure, I haven't noticed beyond the fact itself.

Gaya Ethaniel: So if anyone has other suggestions for upcoming meetings, please write on wiki or let me know.

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Subaru Arun: /me smiles

Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for joining me. Hope to see you again soon.

Subaru Arun: Thank you Gaya

Subaru Arun: Sayonara :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Bye :)