10.01.2010 - 'Avatar' by James Cameron

Trailer
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Avatar, another record-breaking film from James Cameron, had taken 1 bn US$ within 3 weeks after release [with help of additional income from 3D ticket sales]. Was it all about style over substance or a best film ever made? Were the special effects sufficient cover ups for loose ends in the plot such as 'un-obtan-ium'? Looking forward to meeting you again to discuss further.

Additional Information
Perhaps the ultimate resource on "Avatar" -- the Pandorapedia --- at http://www.pandorapedia.com

Meeting Log
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :) Let's give a few minutes to allow people to gather ...

Alfred Kelberry: the bunny! :)

Zen Arado: Hi Gaya :)

Alfred Kelberry jumps and claps his hands

Gaya Ethaniel: Nice to see you Alfred :)

Alfred Kelberry: ok, who did not see the movie? :)

Alfred Kelberry: you too, gaya - always :)

Arisia Vita: I have not...yet

Zen Arado: I haven't seen it yet

Alfred Kelberry: only 2, not bad

Vic Michalak: Are we talking about "Avatar" today? I want to make sure I am on the right Sunday! :)

Alfred Kelberry: yes, vic

Dao Yheng: definitely worth seeing!

Gaya Ethaniel: ok one more minute ...

Vic Michalak: I have seen it twice... in 3D... once with wife, second with step-daughter/grandkids...

Alfred Kelberry: only once a month, vic! hard to make a mistake :) one would think :)

Alfred Kelberry: btw, i'm going to nag about such a long period later on :/

Vic Michalak: Any Nav'i avs out there yet?

Yakuzza Lethecus: good day everyone

Alfred Kelberry: hi, yaku

Mitsu Ishii: maybe we should only discuss movies a year after they come out

Gaya Ethaniel: ok let's start! Vic, yes Avatar is indeed a great family entertainment no doubt.

Zen Arado: Hi Yaku :)

Mitsu Ishii: to give people enough time to see them :)

Alfred Kelberry: vic, i've seen cropped ears in a store :)

Vic Michalak: How about in SL? I imagine someone is working on a 10 foot tall, blue avatar somewhere...

Alfred Kelberry: i promised gaya to watch it... and i did :)

Gaya Ethaniel: There has been a lot of criticism but I've felt it was an entertaining film ... and in a way a trail blazer for future film makings in terms of special effects involved.

Alfred Kelberry: vic, i bet it's out there already :)

Dao Yheng: What is the criticism you've heard, Gaya?

Vic Michalak: Gaya.... people love to criticize....

Alfred Kelberry: we can call it "sharing opinions" :)

Gaya Ethaniel: One of the main criticism [that I also share] is a lot of things were under developed, ie characters ... I didn't really feel much for what happened even to the main couple.

Zen Arado: I heard the plot was suitable only for 5 year olds !

Alfred Kelberry: yes, i agree

Gaya Ethaniel: Did any of you feel that while watching?

Vic Michalak: Yes, but was the idea to win a "Best Picture" award that made people think?

Mitsu Ishii: It was a typical James Cameron script --- silly and cliche, but nevertheless he got good performances from the actors

Mitsu Ishii: also I think some people disliked the fact that it portrays, essentially, Americans in a negative light

Vic Michalak: It portray mercenaries in a negative light...

Mitsu Ishii: though it isn't Americans exactly, it's in space and in the future, but you can see it's based on American foreign policy

Alfred Kelberry: mitsu, i think titanic was well made in terms of relations

Gaya Ethaniel: Well it didn't help 'humans' were represented by seemingly American and largely white.

Dao Yheng: I didn't mind the simplification of character -- more about archetypes

Gaya Ethaniel: This could have been on purpose mind you.

Zen Arado: Hi Eliza :)

Mitsu Ishii: I actually though the implied criticism was fine

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone, sorry to be late... still rezzing

Gaya Ethaniel: How did Americans here felt watching humans being killed by aliens?

Mitsu Ishii: thought

Vic Michalak: Gaya..... but that was the only way that Hollywood might get the audience to identify with the "bad buys"

Gaya Ethaniel: Usually aliens are not 'goodies' ...

Vic Michalak: "bad guys"

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes but even the implied criticism Mitsu pointed out is somewhat limited as in our history shows that colonialism knows no racial bounds.

Alfred Kelberry: gaya, i, knowing about the vast amount of visual effects, took it as a big entertaning movie like armageddon, which it turned out to be pretty much

Alfred Kelberry: hi, eliza :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Anyway, let's not get too political ... :)

Vic Michalak: Gaya.... the "bad guys" were mercenaries out for greed.... Americans (excepting staunch capitalists who worship money and have forgotten their morals) would cheer the natives....

Mitsu Ishii: well yes, but Cameron is North American so it makes sense he'd focus on criticsm closer to home

Dao Yheng: I think it was more a criticism of corporations than colonialism?

Vic Michalak: I am not saying ALL captiatlists worshiop money, only speaking about the ones that do...

Vic Michalak: Dao, yes, corporations versus people....

Vic Michalak: Could have been anywhere on Earth....

Mitsu Ishii: well, he made them mercenaries to make it not a direct criticism of America, but it's obvious there were some implied criticisms of the US as well. A lot of conservatives didn't like that

Eliza Madrigal: Yes, there were lines like "shock and awe" for instance

Vic Michalak: Mitsu... disagree... or at least it does not have to be interpreted that way....

Mitsu Ishii: Yes, precisely, Eliza. Also, the soldiers were Marines, even though not there as Marines.

Vic Michalak: If it were purely America he was bashing, why not keep American military insignia?

Alfred Kelberry: gee, how quickly we got down to politics :)

Mitsu Ishii: It wasn't purely America, I'm simply saying that was part of it

Gaya Ethaniel: 'Colonial' aspect is seen in 'human' vs Na'vi of course ... after all cooperations are owned by people across the globe.

Eliza Madrigal nods

Zen Arado: was it militaristic?

Vic Michalak: The people there were NOT Marines, they were ex-Marines, and probably a lot of other fields....

Vic Michalak: They were mercenaries working for a company, NOT the U.S....

Mitsu Ishii: Yes, I know

Mitsu Ishii: What I'm referring to is the subtext, not the text

Vic Michalak: The subtext is open to interpretation....

Gaya Ethaniel: So most of you agree that the film has deliberate political criticism [however imperfect] built in? Or are we reading too much into a straight forward plot ...

Vic Michalak: Can be whatever you see it as....

Vic Michalak: I am surprised no one has brought up the "Great White Savior" criticism...

Storm Nordwind: Interestingly, being a mercenary has at times in history been regarded as a respectable occupation, and the settlement of England by the Anglo-Saxons in the 5th century was first by mercenaries.

Dao Yheng: Not to digress too much, but one of the hokier aspects of the movie for me was this idea that plants had to be structured like brains in order to count

Mitsu Ishii: They were actually active duty Marines who were somehow being hired as mercenaries.

Alfred Kelberry: mitsu, what was your point? sorry, it got lost in the chat :)

Mitsu Ishii: it's the future and the rules are apparently different

Mitsu Ishii: Well I was just explaining why some people got upset at the movie, primarily conservatives

Gaya Ethaniel: Actually 'white' messiah concept was brought up ...

Vic Michalak: Mitsu.... if they were active duty Marines, they would be wearing active duty uniforms! They were not.... they wore a company log....

Vic Michalak: logo....

Alfred Kelberry: hey, stormy

Mitsu Ishii: Yes, Vic, I understand.

Gaya Ethaniel: But this film is made in US ... if made in Asia, who knows it could have been a Japanese messiah for example :)

Vic Michalak: It could have been in ANY country, at ANY time in the past or present!

Mitsu Ishii: In the movie, the plot was that they were Marines (not retired) who, for some reason, are able to get hired as mercenaries (on leave?)

Mitsu Ishii: so yes they're not working for the US government in the film

Mitsu Ishii: but they are Marines

Storm Nordwind: All mercenaries get their training somewhere

Vic Michalak: Yes, of course....

Mitsu Ishii: anyway, I'm not trying to make a big point of this, just trying to explain how many people responded to the film

Alfred Kelberry: :/

Gaya Ethaniel: I saw the humans as humans rather than Americans ... multinationals are owned by people across the globe.

Gaya Ethaniel: For me, the film was about human vs. an alien culture.

Vic Michalak: Gaya... that is my interpretation....

Vic Michalak: Corporation versus people as well...

Mitsu Ishii: well there is also the parallel with Dances with Wolves which many have pointed out

Vic Michalak: Yes....

Eliza Madrigal nods

Vic Michalak: ....appropriately, I think...

Gaya Ethaniel: An alien society that was represented by a loose concepts picked up from various cultures on earth ... Na'vi was one of the concepts that was unriped.

Mitsu Ishii: I mean, I am an American and like most Americans I cheered for the aliens... but at the same time, we have done some terrible things (i.e., like what happened in Dances with Wolves)

Storm Nordwind: There's a whole line of films like that. Earlier, for example, we have the amazing Little Big Man

Agatha Macbeth: Only took me 20 mins to get here! Jeeeeeeeeez

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Dao Yheng: :)

Agatha Macbeth: Hi Liza :))

Zen Arado: :)

Agatha Macbeth: Yo Zen

Vic Michalak: I am an American.... I am also a retired military officer.... I rooted for the aliens against the greedy corporation....

Zen Arado: Hi Aga

Eliza Madrigal: Did anyone notice that the rituals at tree of souls were monkey chants? :)

Vic Michalak: No... explain....

Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=monkey+chants&search_type=&aq=f

Gaya Ethaniel: I definitely saw a criticism of modern imperialism by cooperation rather than of America ...

Vic Michalak: Me to....

Alfred Kelberry: yep

Vic Michalak: too..

Gaya Ethaniel: Balinese right?

Eliza Madrigal: yes

Mitsu Ishii: well, they actually had some anthropological consultant to help with the Na'vi culture I read

Gaya Ethaniel: One of ideas patched together loosely to construct Na'vi ... imo

Storm Nordwind: America is only 5% of the world's population. Even if the film managed to offend them all, there's still 95% of the world who might take another view!

Agatha Macbeth: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: I was keep comparing to LOTR ... it could have been so much better!

Mitsu Ishii: Cameron actually spent a vast amount of time working on the Na'vi backstory, even if it may have seemed patched together

Alfred Kelberry: storm, it's ok - let them talk :)

Vic Michalak: Storm... yes..... it is applicable to many culturals, present and past....

Gaya Ethaniel: I'd say scripts for his previous films were better than Avatar ...

Eliza Madrigal: I was happy to be able to watch with all three kids at various age ranges... criticism were more toward the end where I thought I'd been moved to Transformers

Mitsu Ishii: apparently they also worked out a huge amount of detail for the biology of the planet, ecosystem, and so on.

Storm Nordwind chuckles

Dali Waverider: There's bound to be a lot of finessing done, if you're creating an imaginary culture as background for a single film.

Eliza Madrigal: yes... lots of biologists and language experts

Gaya Ethaniel: Let's take a cooperate evil character ... compared to the one in 'Abyss' Parker in 'Avatar' is a very simple evil.

Alfred Kelberry: eliza, yes, i had a feeling, too :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Arisia Vita: I doubt it will be a single film...

Alfred Kelberry: and also, distant memories of aliens of 1986 :)

Gaya Ethaniel: As Parker a lot of characters in the film are very flat.

Vic Michalak: See official U.S. Marine Corps view of movie at http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/01/marine_avatar_010810w/ --- the main character is described as a "Marine vet", not a Marine.... but the Director of Public Relations for the Marines is not happy with the movie because it stereotypes Marines as over the top warriors...

Agatha Macbeth: You mean they aren't?

Alfred Kelberry: vic :)

Mitsu Ishii: yes, that's the sort of reaction I'm referring to

Eliza Madrigal: yes the sides are starkly drawn, with just a few overlaps... no doubt there... I think film industry finds that necessary on the whole, with a big budget picture?

Mitsu Ishii: the other criticisms I have heard are what Gaya is talking about, simplistic plot, and then there are criticisms the Na'vi are too stereotypical as well.

Eliza Madrigal: Interesting to note the film was produced by FOX though....

Eliza Madrigal: if I remember correctly, at least in part

Mitsu Ishii: well Fox, culturally, has been pretty left in the entertainment division, it's right only in the news division

Gaya Ethaniel: I agree to an extent Mitsu, the gas giant and multiple moons with a habitable planet was realistic but well ... floating mountains [hallelujah ^^;;;]?

Dao Yheng: Eliza, how did your kids react to this movie?

Mitsu Ishii: who knows why

Eliza Madrigal: They loved it Dao :)

Agatha Macbeth: Hee hee

Vic Michalak: Agatha.... as 20-year military vet, I can say first hand that military people are human, like us, they have feelings and families and are not blood-thirsty, greedy, warriors who blindly kill when told to..... on the other hand, I have met business people who I could not say that of....

Dao Yheng: What was their favorite part?

Eliza Madrigal: My 17 yo taught herself several phrases and went to a dozen websites...

Storm Nordwind: When there's so much money at risk, I would expect tried formulas will win against subtlety, Eliza

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes a great film for families to watch together.

Eliza Madrigal nods nods

Agatha Macbeth: True Vic, very true

Eliza Madrigal: We also had very nice conversations afterward

Eliza Madrigal: about simplicity and nature

Gaya Ethaniel: I saw someone associating Na'Vi with Native American cultures. Do you agree?

Eliza Madrigal: and connections

Mitsu Ishii: my opinion is the bloodthirsty ones tend to be civilians who have no military background

Mitsu Ishii: (in reality that is)

Dao Yheng: I do think this is one of the great things about this movie for kids -- an uncomplicated story where you get to side with the natives

Vic Michalak: Gaya.... one critic said there are elements of Native Americans, Africans. many cultures in the Navi....

Gaya Ethaniel nods.

Mitsu Ishii: As I mentioned they had some consultants who are experts in indigenous cultures, in particular native Americans culture and African culture and some others, to advise on the Na'vi culture

Gaya Ethaniel: I remember kids clutching to their seats watching Sam & Frodo ... didn't see such emotional involvements from kids in the cinema for this film I'm afraid.

Agatha Macbeth: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: They were impressed though ... the world created was visually stunning.

Vic Michalak: Now.... question for all of you on your computers.... who here would REALLY give up everything technical and scientific and go join the Navi, regardless of how "one with nature" they are?

Mitsu Ishii: I have to say I wasn't particularly moved during Titantic either... ha ha

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Mitsu Ishii: Titanic

Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... let's not go there ... Titanic ... ^^;;;

Eliza Madrigal: welll the internet is like collective unconscious/ tree of souls... heh

Agatha Macbeth: Mind that iceberg

Mitsu Ishii: but I still thought it was a cool movie

Mitsu Ishii: yeah, they have the tree of souls facebook app

Vic Michalak: Second Life is a wonderful "tree of souls"....

Mitsu Ishii: but they seem to need wires to connect to animals

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Mitsu Ishii: they need to develop wireless

Gaya Ethaniel: Indeed :)

Vic Michalak: Fiber optics....

Vic Michalak: It was a movie about relationships....

Gaya Ethaniel: I guess it'd be wireless if such a culture exist but I can see the need for having it for communicating to the audience.

Alfred Kelberry: btw, what kind of arrows they had that smash bulletproof glass? :)

Vic Michalak: That is why I have found many women like it.... (sorry for the stereotype there...)

Agatha Macbeth: Strong ones Alf :)

Mitsu Ishii: I thought the film was charming, even the plot, just because --- I like the fact that we're making movie (like Dances with Wolves, etc.) that portrays things from the other POV. Even if it's simplistic.

Gaya Ethaniel: Please send me a sample of the stone Alfred :)

Agatha Macbeth: Strong ones

Eliza Madrigal: :) Well, the girl was mostly ferocious for once...

Mitsu Ishii: For many decades, it was just ... cowboys and Indians

Agatha Macbeth: Girls are! :)

Vic Michalak: I found many women like the hissing part....

Eliza Madrigal: yes for sure

Eliza Madrigal: hah

Vic Michalak: ....to protect their men and family....

Agatha Macbeth: And themselves

Vic Michalak: Yes....

Dao Yheng: and against the dumb encrouchment of guys

Mitsu Ishii: It's kind of a fantasy in terms of the native ability to actually engage with modern technological military force --- in reality they would stand no chance

Dao Yheng: :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Agatha Macbeth: No Dao! *gasp*

Eliza Madrigal: and I liked that the creature had to try to kill the character to choose them...

Alfred Kelberry: i liked the bad-ass heli pilot... who died heroically :(

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Mitsu I like it also that the film is different from usual alien films because the position of human & alien is changed.

Mitsu Ishii: yeah, I liked that choosing scene

Vic Michalak: Yes, but we all want to believe that people could protect what they love, even against overwhelming odds......

Mitsu Ishii: yes, it's like a dream in that respect

Eliza Madrigal nods

Mitsu Ishii: a dream as a kind of apology in a way, which did move me

Vic Michalak: In reality, whole villages are usually slaughtered and the people made slaves, but it makes a good story....

Mitsu Ishii: like we want to apologize for what we've done in the past

Gaya Ethaniel: I want to ask what you made of 'environmental' message in the film.

Alfred Kelberry: vic, this is not a low budget indie movie to introduce such a dissonance :)

Eliza Madrigal: I thought it was a strong statement in that regard, Gaya...

Eliza Madrigal: that it will affect the way children in particular see.. maybe...

Mitsu Ishii: I was thinking about the Spanish when they encountered the Incas. Only 50 of them and they defeated and army of tens of thousands of Inca warriors, just because they had steel weapons and horses, and the Incas had bronze.

Mitsu Ishii: an army

Gaya Ethaniel: And germs ...

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Eliza I thought it was positive too.

Agatha Macbeth: And the incas thought they were gods....

Mitsu Ishii: yes, but even after the germs, the Incas were still tens of thousands

Mitsu Ishii: actually those were Aztecs ... the Incas didn't think that

Agatha Macbeth: Oh, thanks

Vic Michalak: Mitsu.... actually the Spanish got 100Ks of natives to help them that the Aztecs had ticked off and used as sacrifices....

Agatha Macbeth: Yeah, that helps

Vic Michalak: The Spanish alone would have been wiped out in the first battle....

Alfred Kelberry: sweet revenge

Mitsu Ishii: yes, later, but I'm talking about the initial encounter when they first captured Atahuallpa (not to digress on Inca history --- I studied it in college)

Vic Michalak: ...and there was the "god come back" idea....

Agatha Macbeth: Quetzlcoatl?

Gaya Ethaniel: So back to 'Avatar' ...

Mitsu Ishii: in the initial encounter --- they had no allies. --the god come back was Aztec. Incas didn't think the Spaniards were gods.

Agatha Macbeth: Sorry Gaya :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Not at all :)

Gaya Ethaniel: The story certainly draws from the history of imperialism.

Agatha Macbeth: Mmm

Mitsu Ishii: of course even in this story the Na'vi needed help from Gaia

Mitsu Ishii: or Gaya

Mitsu Ishii: or whatever they called it :)

Agatha Macbeth: :)

Zen Arado: I haven't seen it yet...was it better than Transformers?

Gaya Ethaniel: Gaia [Gaya is an ancient kingdom or a mountain in Korea :)]

Zen Arado: I hated Transformers

Dali Waverider: You are the world, Gaya.

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes that Gaia concept was dying before this film!

Mitsu Ishii: we think of you as Gaia too Gaya

Agatha Macbeth: Sure is

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I liked the line "You can't be taught to see"

Agatha Macbeth: Yes!

Gaya Ethaniel: I found the idea interesting how one dies and goes back to 'source' and the deceased life memories are absorbed/added to it.

Eliza Madrigal nods

Gaya Ethaniel: And the decedents can access to it.

Vic Michalak: The story would not have made any sense unless there was a history of imperialism, but, if you read "The Earth is Flat" you would see that the FIRST instance of this type of encounter was techn-savvy nation vs. primiative natiion, THEN (after 1800) it was company vs. people for resources..... so this movie is as much about greedy corporations as about imperialism....

Agatha Macbeth: Like returning to the planet in FFVII

Gaya Ethaniel: Human cultures perhaps are similar to that ... knowledge & experiences handed down.

Alfred Kelberry: aga, or go back to the net :)

Agatha Macbeth: Yeah that too

Storm Nordwind: So, Gaya, that makes it a noble thing to die, and a selfish thing to live on and withhold those memories?

Gaya Ethaniel: No I felt it's a good reason to live a 'meaningful' life :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy ... make good memories too to add to the whole.

Agatha Macbeth: Yup

Vic Michalak: Storm.... living is to acquire memories, a lot of them, so you can pass them down.... so you have to live a nice long life to gain wisdom, but then (I believe) you need to let others take over....

Storm Nordwind: Yes Vic. Both views can exist side by side.

Gaya Ethaniel: I wondered if Jake came back as same or transformed ... was curious at the end.

Gaya Ethaniel: Not transformed as 'better' but different ...

Vertigo Ethaniel: hiyas

Eliza Madrigal: hm, seems he went through transformation and the end ws just a technicality...

Eliza Madrigal: or in what way, gaya

Vic Michalak: Gaya... changing bodies does not change the mind (I believe), but he did find that relationships with others and the land/biology was a stronger incentive/bond than with technology....

Agatha Macbeth: Hi Vert

Gaya Ethaniel: I guess I was thinking of unchanging 'soul' concept :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Which I don't quite agree ...

Mitsu Ishii: yes, I agree with you not agreeing :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Vic, Jake in human body and Jake in avatar body while in the machine I believe are same.

Mitsu Ishii: I was thinking about that scene, and the way I visualized it was that the avatars had nervous systems that could somehow acquire neural patterns via the tree

Vic Michalak: I was thinking that you meant Jake the human versus Jake the Navi at the end....

Gaya Ethaniel: But perhaps there is a possibility that Jake who transfers to the avatar body via Eywa could be different ... in characteristics?

Mitsu Ishii: if the tree could do that it meant the Na'vi had some pretty incredible biological "technology"

Gaya Ethaniel nods.

Vic Michalak: Mitsu.... I loved that kind of relationship between ALL living things... humans and trees, etc....

Gaya Ethaniel: Which is more valuable than 'unobtainium'.

Alfred Kelberry: gaya, we will know in avatar 2 :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Humans didn't see that ... short sight ...

Gaya Ethaniel: uh ... a sequel coming?

Agatha Macbeth: Probably

Mitsu Ishii: one would have to assume he would be different, I think, but who knows if Cameron thought it through that far

Alfred Kelberry: just guessing

Vic Michalak: Gaya..... the liine in the movie on that is "they kiled their mother" speaking of human culture...

Mitsu Ishii: if it were "real", I think he'd be different

Alfred Kelberry: they never mentioned what unobtainium is for

Vic Michalak: Does it matter?

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Vic, I wish we have a similar level of consideration of all things around us too.

Gaya Ethaniel: It's just unobtainable ...

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Alfred Kelberry: maybe it was crucial for human race survival and could have saved millions of lives :)

Vic Michalak: Here is an interesting quote, from Wired (DEC 09): ‘With the language established, Cameron set about naming everything on his alien planet. Every animal and plant received a Na’vi, Latin and common names. As if that weren’t enough, Cameron hired Jodie Holt, chair of UC Riverside’s botany and plant sciences department, to write detailed scientific descriptions of the dozens of plants he had created. – He brought in more people, hiring an expert in astrophysics, a musical professor and an archeologist. They calculated Pandora’s atmospheric density and established a triparitle scale structure for the alien music. Eventually, a team of writers and editors compiled all this information into a 350-page manual dubbed Pandorapedia.’

Vertigo Ethaniel: what it represents is something so valuable that humanity would do anything, and destroy anything, to get it

Vertigo Ethaniel: what it actually is could be gold, spices, uranium, oil, anything

Gaya Ethaniel: Something that we have to 'consume' ...

Agatha Macbeth: Mmm

Vertigo Ethaniel: no, we dont have to... its something which is a luxury, turned into a fake need

Storm Nordwind: Like Melange perhaps?

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Vertigo ... consume as buy excess, unnecessary goods too.

Vertigo Ethaniel nods

Vic Michalak: Vertigo... yes, valuable to the miners only because it had monetary value .... but interesting name to choose "unobtanium"...

Gaya Ethaniel: If a sequel comes out, how many of you will go see it?

Vic Michalak: I will....

Gaya Ethaniel: And how many of you will go see this one again in cinema?!

Eliza Madrigal: sure.. I'm going to take the kids to IMAX

Vertigo Ethaniel: perhaps the name was chosen for the movie to point out the illogic of pursuing resources that, in the end, wont satisfy a humans basic needs

Vic Michalak: I have seen it twice.... "saw" more the second time... :)

Agatha Macbeth: Always the way Vic :)

Vic Michalak: Vertigo... I agree...

Gaya Ethaniel: James Cameron certainly knows how to make a successful film :)

Mitsu Ishii: yeah, Cameron went to some pretty extreme lengths with the Pandora backstory

Vic Michalak: Yes, on that we can all agree! :)

Mitsu Ishii: unobtanium is a science fiction trope for "something incredibly valuable"

Agatha Macbeth: I usually don't 'see' a film till the third time

Gaya Ethaniel: And without being formulaic!

Gaya Ethaniel: Well, if any of you are interested, he also made a 3D documentary on Titanic which was interesting ...

Mitsu Ishii: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

Eliza Madrigal would prob enjoy Titanic now but felt bombarded by it when it came out... ack, and the song

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Dao Yheng: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Whatever the criticism, no one can accuse of him not being a hardworking & passionate director.

Eliza Madrigal: absolutely

Mitsu Ishii: I think that, even if the scripts can be somewhat predictable, Cameron's attention to detail (which he did for both Titanic and Avatar) gives the movies a feel they would otherwise not have I think

Gaya Ethaniel: ^^;;; the cast in Titanic was just ... wrong

Vertigo Ethaniel: its been said that he based the story pretty much entirely on pocahontas

Mitsu Ishii: I think that's why people keep going back ... you can "feel" that there's a lot of richness in the tiny details

Mitsu Ishii: most directors don't care about all that

Gaya Ethaniel: Indeed

Eliza Madrigal nods.. yes details are important for longevity

Vic Michalak: The primary reason I saw it was becasue of the 3D technology..... it is the beginning of a new trend..... soon there will be other 3D movies, and 3D TV and 3D sports.... already starting.... not a "trend", a change in direction with technology, like Second Life is in social networking....

Gaya Ethaniel: I would also suggest to those who would watch 'Avatar' again a few times to go back and watch Cameron's earlier works and spot similarities. Vertigo Ethaniel: 3d movies have been around for some time, of course, but the polarized 3d in this movie was pretty outstanding

Mitsu Ishii: Cameron was a physics major, I think that's part of why he's such a nerdy director when it comes to details

Gaya Ethaniel: A fun project for you to do if time permits :)

Dali Waverider: Homework.

Gaya Ethaniel: Not at all ^^;;;

Eliza Madrigal: >whew<

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Vic Michalak: Vertigo.... that is the value in interdisciplinary approaches.... physics major turned director....

Gaya Ethaniel: So I hope you will go see 'Brothers' until we meet again next month.

Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if it works in reverse?

Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Gaya, everyone. Bye for now!

Agatha Macbeth: Bye Eliza :)

Alfred Kelberry: gaya, how about twice a month? :)

Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks everyone!

Vertigo Ethaniel: :)

Vic Michalak: Thank you.... interesting discussion... wide ranging....

Gaya Ethaniel: I don't have time I'm afraid for twice a month ...

Alfred Kelberry: :/

Agatha Macbeth: There's an offer you can't refuse Gaya!

Gaya Ethaniel: I will invite those present to the group :)

Vertigo Ethaniel is putting off going back to work

Vic Michalak: Weekly seminars are too difficult to sustain sometimes....

Agatha Macbeth: Lazy bum :)

Dao Yheng: Thanks Gaya -- this has been great fun!

Agatha Macbeth: Sry new KB

Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)

Vertigo Ethaniel: thanks gaya

Agatha Macbeth: Thanks Gaya